Public Post
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Martinilush sent this to me since not being a member she can't post here.
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U.S. military says Afghan bibles have been destroyed
Tue May 5, 2009 5:12am EDT
U.S. denies letting troops convert Afghans
Monday, 4 May 2009 08:36am EDT
KABUL (Reuters) - Bibles in Afghan languages sent to a U.S. soldier at a base in Afghanistan were confiscated and destroyed to ensure that troops did not breach regulations which forbid proselytizing, a military spokeswoman said.
The U.S. military has denied its soldiers tried to convert Afghans to Christianity, after Qatar-based Al Jazeera television showed soldiers at a bible class on a base with a stack of bibles translated into the local Pashto and Dari languages.
U.S. Central Command's General Order Number 1 forbids troops on active duty -- including all those based in Iraq and Afghanistan -- from trying to convert people to another religion.
"I can now confirm that the Bibles shown on Al Jazeera's clip were, in fact, collected by the chaplains and later destroyed. They were never distributed," spokeswoman Major Jennifer Willis said at Bagram air base, north of Kabul.
Military officials have said the bibles were sent through private mail to an evangelical Christian soldier by his church back home. The soldier brought them to the bible study class where they were filmed.
Trying to convert Muslims to another faith is a crime in Afghanistan. An Afghan man who converted to Christianity was sentenced to death for apostasy in 2006 but was allowed to leave the country after an international uproar.
"It certainly is, from the United States military's perspective, not our position to ever push any specific kind of religion, period," chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen told a Pentagon briefing Monday.
(Reporting by Peter Graff)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5441JH20090505?feedType=RS...
Urban Outfitters
Thanks, Sam!
I was so upset when I read this - why did they have to destroy the Bibles? I can understand the rule against proselytizing, but if the soldiers come into contact with someone who is interested in their faith, why can't they give them a Bible? Or, I am sure there are Christian organizations in the area doing relief work, they could have given the Bibles to them.
1That's a good point Martini. It seems like it was more of a CYA than anything. Too reactionary. It would have been nice if they could have been returned to the church in the U.S. and/or given to someone outside of the military in Afghanistan.
2It just makes me even more suspicious of our president's allegiance.
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Conservative in exile
Washington and Sacramento: Stealing our children's futures.
i believe - and i could be wrong- just being in possession of it is a crime. So if caught the person would be thought of a a heretic and probably beaten or worse. it just makes me wonder what they fear so much from other religions. Remember the giant Buddhas?
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"Ever tried, ever failed, no matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail Better." - Samuel Beckett
I *do* remember the Buddhas.
5That was (and still is) a sacrilege, destroying such a remarkable old work of art.
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Conservative in exile
Washington and Sacramento: Stealing our children's futures.
It broke my heart to see them come down so violently.
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"Ever tried, ever failed, no matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail Better." - Samuel Beckett
Well, the Koran is pretty clear. To convert from Islam is apostasy and that is an automatic death sentence. Although, Christians and Jews are considered "people of the book" who have prior revelations from God (although not on par with the Prophets revelation that resulted in the Koran), so they are supposed to be left alone and allowed to worship their own way. It is ok for a Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman (lucky for me, BTW!
). So, I guess
if someone was already a Christian to have the Bible would be ok. Or it should be ok, I guess it depends on how they are interpreting the Koran/law.
I just wonder if the same thing would have been done if they were in a predominantly Christian country and it was a Muslim soldier with Korans. Would they have destroyed those? That isn't meant to be inflammatory or anything, it is an honest question. Do they regularly do things like this?
7Yes, the Buddhas were heartbreaking. I wish that there had been a way to protect them or move them or something....
8no signs of any other faith is permitted in the extreme end. so by that logic they had to be destroyed as are bibles etc....
9and in a lot of the muslim world other faiths are not left alone. They are pushed until the communities are tiny or are driven out. The reverse does not happen in Westernized nations - yet.
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"Ever tried, ever failed, no matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail Better." - Samuel Beckett
To be honest, I think if Al Jazeera hadn't aired that story, none of this would have happened.
But to answer your question about the Koran/Muslim soldier, I would guess that it would be handled more delicately (i.e. not destroyed the Koran) because of the country.
10Oh, that's a good point, Sy - perhaps the only reason they felt the need to destroy them was because of where they were. Otherwise, they may have just confiscated them or something.
11This is very sad. What soldier has time to proselytize anyway.
12"It just makes me even more suspicious of our president's allegiance."
13are you saying he is a muslim?
i think it was a wise decision, meant to protect our soldiers from any possible hate attacks. and if soldiers have spare time i do not think providing bibles to anyone interested should be an option, it makes the whole operation look shady, and puts uninvolved soldiers at risk. i dont know if this is ever going to be possible because of the taliban and stuff, but i think the point in being there is to keep the peace and teach them to have a stable society which does not violate the rights of women, while remaining muslim-even if you think converting them all to christianity would save the country, its just never going to work. if missionaries are there it should be clear that they are completely independent of the military (and at their own risk). judging from recent events, handing out bibles does not seem like something a lot of afghani's would take lightly.
I agree snows.
14"i think it was a wise decision, meant to protect our soldiers from any possible hate attacks. " if he cared about that the cia memos and photos would not have been released. The only one he cares about is himself.
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"Ever tried, ever failed, no matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail Better." - Samuel Beckett
I don't think destruction of anyone's holy scriptures is a "wise decision"...that was what upset me about this story. I agree that the policy of no proselytizing, but they should have simply returned the Bibles to the congregation sending them or donated them to another organization.
16I understand the policy of no proselytizing, but I agree with Martini that the bibles should have been returned to the US or something instead of destroyed.
17i guess because i am not religious and printing books is not at all expensive it just isn't particularly sad to me...
18(compare it to everything else going on there!)
if it sends a clear message to the afghani crazies that we aren't there for proselytizing i think its worth it to destroy those bibles... and i believe the decision was based on the nature of the area. if it wasn't in a country where many do suicide attacks and take religion SUPER serious to the point of killing people, i think Obama would have just made a statement saying 'it wasn't our intention to bla bla bla,' and let it go.
Yup, snow. My guess though is that the decision to destroy was made within the military, and not by Obama, or any of his surrogates.
19Just so you know printing books is an expensive venture and uses up trees. I guess the environment is not important either.
20Maybe IMO, since they use their G-d as an a excuse to kill; they should be introduced to a more peaceful one.
But you also miss the point if someone asks to have one to read and learn, then what, you have destroyed them and deprived them of another viewpoint. Stop living to please terrorists.
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"Ever tried, ever failed, no matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail Better." - Samuel Beckett
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