I read this really interesting column by Dan Wetzel over on Yahoo! Sports (yes, I read sports news regularly!) about how many are calling out the Chinese for cheating by saying their girls on the gymnastics team are 16 when in actuality they're probably 14.
Here are some very hilarious and interesting quotes from the column.
Karolyi accuses Chinese of age-old problem - By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
Perhaps the most famous case of an underage gymnast – the current Olympic age minimum is 16 – occurred back at the 1991 world championships... North Korea entered a girl who, while certainly capable of spins and flips, looked painfully slight and terribly young. Still, the documentation checked out and no one was truly sure until she happened to flash a big smile which revealed … she was still losing her baby teeth.
Bela Karolyi, the Vince Lombardi of women’s gymnastics, tells that story just like he tells all of his stories about underage gymnasts...Now he fears the United States women’s team is about to be victimized by them.
The Americans must compete against Chinese girls who, while “officially” being old enough, sure look awfully young. Consider 4-foot-6, 68-pound Deng Linlin. Or Jiang Yuyuan, who checks in at a strapping 4-7 and 70 pounds.
“They are using half-people,” Karolyi told the Associated Press. “One of the biggest frustrations is, what arrogance. These people think we are stupid. “We are in the business of gymnastics and we know what a kid of 14 or 15 or 16 looks like. You don’t have to be a gymnastics coach to know what they look like at 16.”
A number of U.S. media investigations have shown that Deng is one of three Chinese team members who previously had ages listed on various documents that would make them as young as 14 during this calendar year. However, the International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) merely requires a government issued passport as proof of age. China produced one for each member of the team.
...Karolyi is convinced the Americans are being cheated. He wonders out loud if the Chinese packed diapers. He mocks passport accuracy since it is the Chinese government that issued it
...The Chinese look so young they may still watch “Dora the Explorer.” The team’s average height and weight on its listed roster is a mere 4-9 and 77 pounds. By comparison, the smallest American gymnast is Shawn Johnson, a 16-year-old who checks in at 4-foot-9 and 90 pounds. The U.S. average is 5-foot and 107 pounds, which might qualify as obese by Chinese standards.
...Younger and thus smaller gymnasts may have an advantage in a number of disciplines. Age limits were enacted by FIG for the safety of the athletes.
...Asking for more than a meager passport – which, since the government issues it, is obviously quite easy to control – is a long overdue change. Not that anything would completely eliminate cheating.
...Unlike doping, there isn’t a test to determine someone’s age. It’s not like cutting into a redwood tree and counting the rings.
Maybe they can ask Deng Linlin to smile wide for the cameras.
Isabella Oliver
I read about this last night, and I'm not really sure how you solve a problem like this. I was pretty shocked by how young some of the Chinese gymnasts looks, but (don't skin me alive for saying this) I've always had a rough time telling the age of Asian people. They usually look so much younger than they are.
1no one will skin you Mich! They did point out that Japan's girls were also thinner/shorter but I think it brings about the idea that things may need to be changed in the future since countries can easily produce a passport saying whatever it needs to say.
2no one will skin you Mich! They did point out that Japan's girls were also thinner/shorter but I think it brings about the idea that things may need to be changed in the future since countries can easily produce a passport saying whatever it needs to say.
3(blah, sorry about the double post!)
4Yeah, I'm not sure how you'd remedy that, though. I heard a former U.S. coach suggesting they just remove the age requirements, that way nobody would be penalized for following the rules. However, I just don't think its appropriate for a 13 year old to be under that much pressure.
5Have they thought about how people of Asian descent are often smaller in stature than people of European descent.???? This could answer a few questions.
I agree with you syako they do need to change the fact that they only need a passport as proof of age as these can be easily produced to say whatever.
Also maybe this person just needs to realise that the Chinese gymnasts are going to give the Americans a run for the money....
just a thought
6I realize that Asians do come in smaller packages. My best friend from childhood is Asian, and she was always very small. Until she hit 16... Just sayin..
Did anyone watch these girls?! They just look too young in the face. I know gymnastics stunts some things with training like that and eating such a diet. They just look really young..
7I agree Laura. For me, ultimately, it's not about them "cheating" but it's about having a young girl (a CHILD) compete in a setting like this, it can really hurt their bone growth and muscle development, etc. It just seems like there's this child factory that pumps little gymnasts out at whatever cost.
8Actually, we've made a few tasteless jokes while watching the Olympics about what some countries will do--with no concern for the individual--for national pride.
Does anyone remember some of the stories out of the former Soviet Union? They'd take these kids while still quite young, put them in government-run athletic camps, and control every aspect of their lives to produce an Olympian. This was also back before anyone knew to watch for doping. If they were worn out at 16 or 20, no problem, they were just discarded for a new kid.
I suspect this is the "business model" China is following.
9---------------------------------------------------------------
I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig, you get dirty;
and besides, the pig likes it. --George Bernard Shaw
I heard about this as well, sy, and think that some of these girls do have such young-looking faces, not just bodies.
My bigger concern would also be for the welfare of the children; I'm not sure how being 14 would give you an advantage over being 16. I actually think it might give you a disadvantage, but I'm not gymnastics expert.
10Well consider this - you weigh 68 pounds, you're american counterpart weighs 107. I think 30 pounds lighter will definitely give you an advantage twirling your total 68 pounds in the air.
11That is true. I was thinking more about the fact that the older you are, the more training you have. That and the fact that the pressure probably wouldn't get to someone who is older as much. But I definitely see what you're saying. I think younger people tend to naturally be more flexible, as well.
12The sad thing is these girls will peak before they are even old enough for college. What happens to them then? Also if they are willing to forge a passport what would stop them from doing it with a birth certificate. It is issued by the same government.
13I think there should be a multitude of documents necessary.
14But if it is all issued by the government how are we going to be sure if its someplace like China, Russia, Venezuela or Iran
15You would think there would be some kind of way to tell medically if it's that big of a concern. They already have to do all kinds of blood tests, why not add one more test?
16I agree sam, but it takes more effort. For example, this article presented some media findings that documents these girls actually being 14. So it would be harder to forge a few documents and destroy all other evidence. Not that it would be impossible, but it would be much more challenging than just a passport.
17What just came to mind: If the Chinese are forging passports what does that do to our homeland security? Do we start questioning all passengers coming off China Air?
18Maybe I'm the only one, but I feel like if the girls feel themselves that they are able to compete in this high-pressure setting, then regardless of what age they are, they should be able to compete. After all, they start training before the age of 5. As well, I feel this is a very undeserved attack by Karolyi, as I read that he is known for using underage girls back in his day in Romania. Also, if the Chinese girls were not in medal position (they just won 1st!), would anyone be questioning them?
19I've been to China and I will say fom experience that it is hard to tell the difference between a 14 year old to a 16 year old. Due to the nutrition factor and what they do. Asians are exceptionally small in stature as well as in weight when in the right environment.
In Korea and Japan Asians are still small but are increasingly getting bigger due to them being americanized, with our fattening foods and the like. China isn't very americanized therefore they are going to be smaller, healthier, lighter and possibly younger looking (genetics also play a part in how young someone looks).
I've looked at the gymnastics team for China and I agree 2 look young but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't their age.
I just wish people would stop nitpicking everything the Chinese government does. If you were in their shoes you'd do the same to look good to the rest of the world. It's just the fact that people don't like China so they are trying to "uncover" things wrong with it. Which further proves how "low" people are now-a-days.
But that's just me, and I'm tired of hearing about the "controversies".
20I think the problem for Karolyi Incorporated is that they didn't think of it/get away with it first - not that they are against 14 year olds competing. America would never forge passports so a child could win gold.
And in response to this statement: "I just wish people would stop nitpicking everything the Chinese government does. If you were in their shoes you'd do the same to look good to the rest of the world."
If China stopped abusing human rights, perhaps people would "stop nitpicking" everything they do. They're concerned about image because they know what we'll find when we really do get a good look inside. Remember the Soviet Union? Everyone thought they were prospering and happy when in actuality Stalin was murdering millions of his own people simply for being "successful." Not saying China is doing this (murdering millions), but that's the nature of these closed, collectivist and Communistic states. Image is everything.
21This was on the news yesterday morning, and a specialist claimed that their facials structure showed that they were still children and that normally, someone with that facial structure barely hit puberty yet!
22wow i totally agree, last night I was watching NBC and Bella the romanian coach from past olympics was having a cow saying that the chinese are definately wayy too young. hahaha hes really funny did anyone else see that too?
23I know what you mean.
24I was watching them last night and it's pretty creepy how young they look.
But you're right. Determining age is very difficult.
I don't even know how you would be able to prove age? it's not my field of expertise but it does make me think about Chinese girls in general and how many baby girls in China are "disposed of" or left in the country to perish and disappear partially because of the cultural preference for boys and the govt. restriction on 1 child per household to control population. For Some girls... (and I have no idea about their background) it's really hard to determine birthdates if they were abandoned or adopted later on.
I was born in the US and grew up American though culturally Asian. I was always smaller than my classmates and people still think I'm 3-5 years younger than I really am.
25Agreed but I don't like this self-righteous act people seem to be portraying while saying that the country and it's people are bad. When most people are too blind to look at their own country and point out the faults and instead look at everyone else's and saying "Oh they are bad, they are cheaters." It just frustrates me that people cannot accept how some things are done and move on with their lives. Okay so China has some human rights problems - big deal, our country is full of self-righteous, lazy obese people. Catch my drift.
26The Olympics is supposed to be "fun for everyone" not to bicker, whine and moan over petty things because of jealousy and self-righteous-ness. That is all I'm initially saying.
Ok but there's a huge difference from being able to look at your own country and see faults (which, believe me, I can) than to look at a communist state and know that even just the communist theory itself is seriously flawed and all the prior "attempts" at communism failed miserably (Soviet Union) and the only reason China started to grow economically was when they introduced private property (which is a capitalistic idea).
And it's not "just human rights" and it's not "just communism." These things are huge. And countries who abuse these things and who are communists will get "nitpicked" because they are fundamentally flawed.
Now, in terms of the Olympics, I agree that we don't need to make up excuses for losing.
27"China has SOME human rights problems" -They have a LOT of human rights issues. Do you need them listed. I can start with the invasion of Tibet, go to the prison system, child labor, forced abortions and move on up to the cover up of the bad construction of schools and the deaths of only children from an earthquake. Not to mention the forms parents were forced to fill out and the building of walls and to hide the mess.
28As for his complaining - he is a competitive man. He has trained some of the best. It is no different if you feel you are being cheated or someone cuts in front of you. You are going to speak out. Unlike China we do have freedom of speech and that includes complaining.
We also have the highest medal count in the games.
29I've lived in Korea, I'm living in Japan, I've been to China and all I'm saying is that sometimes there is more than meets the eye. Sure the Communism that they have in place isn't perfect but do you think our democracy is any better? I think not. Communism has a lot of good points about it if you've actually studied, which I assume you have not. The concept it good but the leadership is bad. Just like every other country and it's government.
If you've ever lived in another country, you'd understand that and let it be. No country is perfect, no person is perfect.
30Are you referring to the original concept of communism or are you talking about Communism as is? Communism as is has led what I would call dictatorships. Cuba shipped all its best soil to Russia in the name of Communism. Gulags and the taking of people in the middle of the night and shipping them off to prisons because they spoke out. Not wanting to make yourself a better person because no matte what you do all are equal and receive equal pay. So you would prefer no freedom of speech, one person telling you what to do, your neighbors reporting on you? Yeah much better system. If it was so great how come Ukraine, Poland and other former Soviet satellites decided to leave?
31I'm talking about the original idea and concept of Communism.
32You don't know why they left? Because they thought something was better of course.
The grass is only greener on the other side after all.
Because there are so many people, so many religions, so many types of governments in this world.
People want more. They want better. They thing something else will solve their problems.
And does it really? No.
But if, by the idea, that we were all using the same governmental ideas then yes - it would make more sense as a whole and function as a whole.
Now I am tired of this, I've expressed my thoughts and I've expressed my ideas.
As have you and the others. Even though we will never meet eye to eye on the matter.
I still think that there is much to learn and much to open ones mind to.
That is all I am saying and have been saying.
First of all Bry there's no reason for you to question my intellect and/or my personal knowledge of Communism. If you need to know, not only have I studied Russian history extensively, I'm also married to a man who grew up in the Soviet Union. Who's parents had to wait in lines in order to give their hungry son some bread at night. Who's government hid the fact that a nuclear reactor exploded and that children were being exposed to deadly fumes and the only reason my husband's family found out and were able to escape was because his grandfather was high up in the party.
I'm really offended that you would come in here (notice the group) and you would accuse me of not knowing about these things when I've obviously been talking about them in a learned way the whole time. I guess maybe you can't see that? Also, if you want to talk about whether or not communism works you're welcome to talk to my husband who will give you an earful about the flaws and the horrible way of life he and his mother and his grandparents had to spend because some stupid idealistic Russians felt it their need to take over the govt that was out fighting a world war and institute this flawed philosophy because they had read it in books and it sounded so great.
So I welcome to talk to him, to his grandfather, to go to Cuba to go to all these other "experiments" and then, then we can debate this, and then we'll most likely see eye to eye. You've got it really good here in America darling, and if you can't see that then I'm sorry.
33Also, it's great to study communism in theory, but unfortunately, it has to be practiced in reality, which doesn't work. As sy pointed out, China started to become prosperous when they introduced capitalism. I don't think that was a coincidence.
And I'm pretty sure sam knew why they left, too.
34Isn't it strange that someone talks down to others, presumes to know about their level of knowledge, and just acts generally better, but then criticizes others for being self-righteous? Something's not adding up.
35Its the Liberal Sugar way. Be pretentious and condescending with nothing to back it up.
36kya hai
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