i think it's completely ridiculous, and I agree with you. first, because we do need animal testing. The caveat is that it is only appropriate as long as it isn't cruel and makes the animal suffer. Then like you i thank the animal. Thank you, goat!

but how much of this is true? who would have access to this information that would also be allowed to write about it without getting fired? the notion of baby goats being made transgenic, and most of them useless and therefore being killed just sounds like a scare tactic to tug at people's heartstrings. I would bet money that half of this e-mail is just made up!

None of the above, for me. I'm not a fan of animal testing. Testing that causes suffering and/or death for a whole slew of animals but does nothing for humans but create a drug that cures erectile dysfunction or alleviates allergies, etc...is just not right in my book. Testing that creates drugs that actually saves lots of lives, well...I can see the argument for that.

But, I'm not upset that someone has a different opinion than me or that they are trying to drum up support for their position.

I agree, I should have put non-vital drugs in the cosmetics catagory. And I have no problem with differences of opinion. I have a problem with fear-mongering propoganda though. I get at least three of these a day. All have some mention of the evil Bush administration in bold whether it can possibly be envolved or not. All claim the sky is falling. And all are at best a scant half-truth.

How the heck did you get on these lists?!?

Did anyone happen to catch the 30 Days Episode from Sunday night? It was about a hunter who lived with animal rights activists for 30 days. Some of the things in that show really floored me. One was the animal testing being done and how innacurate the test results can be. The hunter spoke with a doctor that had originally been for animal testing but now is against it. Her logic was really enlightening. I'm for animal testing if it saves lives. But some of the tests depicted in that show was hard to watch.

piper, what did the hunter end up thinking about it?

i think man has been hunting for quite some time now, for food, and for warmth from furs. Therefore I am not opposed to it. Also, I eat beef and other meat that is raised for consumption.

The one thing that appalled me recently was the video from the meat packing plant in California. Did ya'll see it? It was where they had the sick cows, and the workers were torturing one of them, and dragging it around by one leg. it is the first time I ever lost desire to eat beef. It took a while before I could get that image out of my head.

oh and GS, my family is very conservative, and I used to get every single email fwd that entered my aunt's inbox. they were all the same as this, only against dems and democratic principles. They were so over the top, so silly, and so half-made-up! And I can't tell you how many of them managed to mention Ted Kennedy, and his "accident" that killed a secretary. Seriously. how long ago did that happen? and these forwards could manage to segway from totally random topics into Ted Kennedy. My only concern was that people believe everythign they read in an email forward, and actually shape their opinions on stuff that could be totally made up. ugh! any idiot can write something like this and start forwarding it around.

i saw that episode! it was really interesting.

At the end he said that he would still hunt but that he would continue to use every part of the animal to show respect to it and that he would be more conscious of what he eats re: mass produced meat.

GS this stuff makes me absolutely INSANE! Gah! I'm not for torturing animals or making them suffer in the least. Drug testing to save lives and the animal doesn't feel anything-I definately thank the animal.

These things sensationalize like crazy though. Peta-which I'm SURE is behind this pettion-leaves out facts, turns things around and whatever they need to do to put the animal testing eating hunting ranching people in a bad light.

We need to see from the FDA's side what really happens and why.

I am a hunter and of a cattle ranching family. I friggen hate these people.

These animal rights people are so infuriating. They cause more suffering and accidents in hunting. Sorry. Don't mean to go off into the hunting world. It just was brought up and so then I have to put my cents in.

Like Cabaker said, he was still going to hunt but he had more respect for the animals I believe. He went with a rescuer to a mega farm, I believe that's what it was called, where the cows are packed in and just laying everywhere. The poor calfs were put in these wooden box like thingies side by side, not allowed to move. It was really disturbing. That's what kind of got the hunter to start seeing that there maybe was a problem with some of those places. I'm eating steak tonight so obviously it didn't affect me too much.

I haven't seen the episode, so I'm totally going on other episodes or articles of similar things: A lot of times these things get a person who says they are a character like a hunter for example (although, I'm not saying he wasn't a hunter, just possible he really wasn't). Anyway, what they do is film everything then edit. We put calves in boxes too. There are several types and for various reasons. But, we don't leave them there. When it's a really cold morning and the calf isn't doing well after it's born, we put them in a hot box. It's just a little box with a heater in it. Sometimes after the calf is born and we need to bring the mother and calf up to a certain spot-we put the calf in a box and bring it to where we want the mother and calf together. She'll follow the box. There are so many things done that if a person were to only see one part of something, they could very easily come to the conclusion of "toture". However, there ARE times that someone or place, isn't a doing good things. I'll definately agree to that. It drives me crazy though, when shows or acticles give the impression that it's the whole industry.

With anything there are bad people, but generally the norm for hunters is that they DO use all the meat and they are respectable to the animal. I don't any hunter who advocates otherwise. That's what bugs me I think about the "hunter" in this particular show. It gives the impression that suddenly there's an epiphany here. It goes along with what I hear from non-hunters (I say non, they are just people who don't hunt. They aren't against it, but it's not what they do themselves). I hear, "I'm not against hunting, as long as they eat what they kill." Why do I hear that so often? What is it that people think we do otherwise?

you're right harts. it's all about editing, and the agenda of the producer.

I thought I should come back and put a -

I sound like I'm all pissed off at you guys here. I'm not. I'm mad at these articles and shows and that stuff. I'm sorry guys. This stuff gets me going. You've seen me go bizerk before on these things. I can't help it!

yes thanks kris! now i have my little guy here. im not so sdure how long ill be able to chat.

i just realized all the errors i had in the long comment.

i didn't notice your errors! now I will go back with a red pen and fix them.

just kidding!

Oh! You must be an english teacher! I've had plenty of them make my papers all bloody!

I can understand why you get upset, its your family business! They only showed this one really bad example in that show. And you know they never show the good stuff. I'm friends with a lot of hunters and my husband use to bow hunt when he had time. So in case I came across as being against hunting, believe me, I'm not. I love deer meat.

Piper. I didn't think you were at all. Don't mind me sometimes. I get all uptight and fumming with this stuff sometimes and I sound like I'm going off on particular people.

Although, I have gone crazy pissed at one person before--umm, but that was a bit back.

I hunt, my husband hunts and my 13 year old daughter hunts. We get animal rights people in our face all the time. It's a hot button for me. I go nuts! Sorry.

ON my husbands other family ranch. They used to have two. That area wasn't all hunter friendly as much as where we live now. Anyway, here's one example of many, a hunter outside of our property, shot an antelope. Just as he did. "Those" people started yelling at the animal causing a bad shot. The animal was wounded but jumped our fence line. Then the guys had to find out who owned the property (out of towner) call and ask to be on the property to find his animal and still kill it. All the while the people continued to scare the wounded animal now bleeding to death because of them, away. It was a long process and of course the animal died very slowly and needlessly painfull.

Anyway, I go completely bonkers on this matter.

Cab, it is a petition site. I had to go to it years ago for some info and got put on a mailing list. Now I just stay on it to see what they are stirred up about. They just have a link and people virtually sign the petition, even if it makes no sense.

And to anyone totally against animal testing and about the doctor Piper mentioned. There are those of us who's lives depend on drugs. Who are still looking for drugs that will help us. Where we pray that some researcher is wrapping up testing on a drug that could help. And I seriously have no problem if a goat has to go. I have nothing for gratitude for that goat. But seriously, if you were starving, and you came across this goat, wouldn't you eat it? Well, parts of my body are starving and need this goat to feed it. Get it? It is easy to sit and say, oh that's awful and I am against it, when you have never needed it.

I'm with you GS! :high-five:

If it is a life saving drug then I do not have a problem, but like others have said, I do have a problem with needless testing and abuse of animals in some testing labs. If these animals are to give their lives for us, then we should give them the respect they deserve.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

I feel like I stated it pretty clearly that I feel animal testing should only be done for medical reasons. Viagra and restless leg syndrome and the like excluded.

lol, my comment just got flagged and the only thing I can think would have flagged it was a mention of the name brand drug that helps older men, um...perform.

Restless leg syndrome is such a crock of poop!

And GS, I was agreeing with you and others.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

Oh I know cine! I am just putting that out there because it is being viewed by many more than are commenting. And RLS, good lord, have you seen the list of side effects on those drugs? I would much rather toss and turn than have lumpy back syndrome or retro-active birth defects?

Just making sure GS, wasn't sure if what I wrote came out wrong.

I know! Some of the side effects are insane! If it is going to cause my butt to bleed or my child to be born with one arm, then MAYBE I should not take it. I don't know.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.